And now, a morally self-righteous interlude.
February 28th, 2006Oh, for the love of all that is good and holy, take a look at the main character for this upcoming amateur adventure. Admittedly, she’s no more disgustingly silicone-enhanced than most polygon-formed girls gracing the covers of gaming magazines, but having to see this in an adventure game gives me quite the “Et tu, brute?” feeling. I honestly thought we were at least somewhat more mature than the mainstream pubescent male hardcore gamer crowd.
The justification for the creators of this game making their main character so… er… bouncy is that since they have to draw a gazillion character animation frames, they might as well spend their time drawing something that they find aesthetically pleasing. After all, who wants to play or make a game starring an ugly girl, right? And also, if we can have Arnold Schwarzenegger-type male characters, why can’t we have well-endowed female characters?
Rather than go into detail about how ridiculous these arguments are, and how they blatantly ignore the obvious fact that women, unlike men, have a long history of being objectified into less than rational human beings, I’m just going to smugly smirk at the fact that I made Gertrude Zzyrgenhymer completely flat-chested, and that the character wearing the least clothing in TGTTPOACS just so happens to be male.
February 28th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
Well, I agree with you.
February 28th, 2006 at 11:17 pm
Yay! Looks like there’s hope for the opposite sex after all.
March 1st, 2006 at 1:32 am
Now, now. I’m sure that the character design is purely functionally justified.
(I’m not sure that was english, but it was supposed to be funny)
March 1st, 2006 at 3:30 am
Hello. Well, I drew that and I appreciate that it’s not going to be everybody’s cup of tea and that’s fine. You’re all entitled to your opinions. However, point number one: Amateur Adventure Game. That means we’ll make the game WE want to make with the characters WE want to draw. We’re not charging anything, if you don’t like it don’t play it.
Secondly, “Rather than go into detail about how ridiculous these arguments are”. Well hang on, you haven’t actually offered a decent argument against it. This character is the protagonist. She wins. She is strong. She succeeds through personal triumph in the face of overwhelming adversity. And she does it through cunning and puzzle-solving. That makes her quite a decent role model. She doesn’t just skip around merrily looking pretty while all the male characters save the day.
At the end of the day, this is a fantasy game. And her particular look is justified somewhat within the game. As is the nurse’s uniform.
So appologies to any overly sensitive people who have a problem with women with large norks appearing in videogames. This is not the first, it certainly won’t be the last, and it’s by no means the most gratuitous.
:o)
Bye,
CaptainBinky
March 1st, 2006 at 5:19 am
“She wins. She is strong. She succeeds through personal triumph in the face of overwhelming adversity. And she does it through cunning and puzzle-solving.”
So did Lara Croft, the most prominent sex symbol in video games…
March 1st, 2006 at 5:36 am
“So did Lara Croft, the most prominent sex symbol in video games… ”
That’s true. Would you prefer it if all videogame characters were male? There are plenty of girl gamers whose favourite fighting game characters include Mai Shiranui from King of Fighters and Ivy from Soul Calibur. But shall we remove them because of the odd person who thinks they objectify women? Besides, if you want to have a go at games with boobs in, why not target Leisure Suit Larry. Games like Tomb Raider do at least feature a positive image of women (headstrong, courageous, successful, etc) - it’s only really the marketing that turned her into a sex symbol (and the fan art and comics).
I have much more of a problem with blowing the heads of people in FPSs than I do with seeing a pixellated picture of a nice looking girl (or guy).
And quite frankly, you’ll see more “offensive” demeaning portrayals of women as sex-objects every day on MTV than you’ll ever see in a videogame. And it’s the women doing that.
March 1st, 2006 at 6:21 am
“and how they blatantly ignore the obvious fact that women, unlike men, have a long history of being objectified into less than rational human beings, I’m just going to smugly smirk at the fact that I made Gertrude Zzyrgenhymer completely flat-chested, and that the character wearing the least clothing in TGTTPOACS just so happens to be male.”
however I’d just like to point out though that this is a rather hypocritical attitude to have: “Women have been objectified into less than rational beings for a long time. So now I’m going to do exactly the same to men. Then ’smirk’ at it, at the same time as getting all self-righteous on my blog”
Just my 2c worth.
March 1st, 2006 at 7:15 am
The nub of the matter is this: Men like looking at boobs. We’re sorry. We know that boobs are not even close to being the most important thing about women. We know that behind those boobs is a complex and sentient human being with emotions, ambitions, drives and opinions. But men like boobs. Men have liked boobs for millions of years. There’s nothing we can do about it! We are slaves to boobs, we are the victims of being hypnotized by them. We are fasinated by them. We have no idea why. We have no control over it. But if we see a pair of boobs it lightens our day somewhat. Call that ridiculous, you’d be right… it is pretty ridiculous, but it’s so entwined in our being there’s little we can do about it. Seriously.
This is what women singularly can’t seem to appreciate. They have no idea of the very real power boobs have over the male mind, and seem to see it as some kind of conscious belittling of their gender, when in fact it’s an unfortunate addiction that practically every male has from the first time they are breast fed to the moment they draw their last breath. Just because of this addiction, doesn’t mean we see women as “objects” or don’t respect them as people.
So when we come to make a main character for our game. Are we going to go out of our way to make an unattractive woman with a flat chest, just to appease (admit it) a minority of people who may find it offensive? Especially when, as we say, her image is somewhat justified in the story, and since this is our ONE opportunity to make a game where WE make the decisions about what WE want to do, to tell OUR story in any way we please, and to have OUR characters look the way we want them to. Are we really going to make fundamental changes to our main character, and the story (which *would* require it), to satisfy two posters out of about 100?
Fact is, if the situation was reversed, and I downloaded an amateur adventure game starring a man strutting around in a thong and sporting a large bulge, it probably would turn me off playing it, so in that I agree with you. However, I wouldn’t take such offense as to start a blog about how “wrong” it was, I would just use the fabled delete key and everything would thereafter be fine. It reminds me of these people who watch “controversial” TV programs, just so they can write a letter to complain about it.
And as for “having a long history” being a factor in this. An analogy: I’m British. British people have a “long history” of being personified as evil people in American cinema. For well over half a century. Does that annoy me? Well, a tiny bit. But at the end of the day, I can appreciate that a British accent kind of sounds “cool” for a baddie character. Fair game, as long as Americans don’t think we’re all evil geniuses over here. You should appreciate that the majority of people playing games are male, as well as the people making the games, and as such, the male addiction to boobs will show in that medium. Want more balanced male/female sexuality in games? Get more of your sisters making and playing games, and that will happen.
March 1st, 2006 at 7:59 am
Wow! Finally Squinky has found a blog subject that gets plenty and intense attention!
I suggest a monthly boob topic.
March 1st, 2006 at 10:06 am
Hey, now you’re saying that you’re doing this beacuse that’s the way men are? Maybe it’s time for me to actually get offended.
(And no, I don’t approve of almost-porn-like music videos either.)
March 1st, 2006 at 11:09 am
“Hey, now you’re saying that you’re doing this beacuse that’s the way men are? Maybe it’s time for me to actually get offended.”
Not at all, all I’m saying is that men’s general fascination with boobs is not because they are chauvinistic, hate women, think of women as nothing more than sex objects, or anything else. It’s cause they are geneticly programmed to like boobs for the procreation of the human race. And when you have an indistry that is rather male led (unrightly, I’d love for more women to be into games) then it’s to be expected that you will get some boobs cropping up from time to time.
March 1st, 2006 at 11:11 am
@Rikard:
I think what Lemmy’s saying is that we’re doing this because of the way we (personally) are, and we don’t think we’re the exceptions. Yes, there are men out there to whom his statements don’t apply, and if that includes you, then good for you. However, as a general rule if what he said wasn’t true then marketing games, music, cars, lifestyle magasines etc with scantily clad women wouldn’t work and it’d soon stop happening. Sex sells, rightly or wrongly.
March 1st, 2006 at 11:25 am
Hee hee. You’re right, Kej; I really AM doing it just for the attention.
Let me clarify a few things, though:
It’s not so much the fact that she’s attractive (or at least according to your tastes) or that she isn’t flat-chested, but more of the fact that her boobs are so huge that they couldn’t possibly occur in nature. Exaggeration of a particular feature signifies that you consider it important and worthy of attention. You can make excuses of the fact that she’s strong and smart; however, the very fact that you make her look unnaturally sexy implies that you want people to notice her sexiness first.
Elaine Marley and Maureen Corley, to give examples, are both strong, intelligent, and dare I say attractive; however, even despite the fact that they are cartoon characters, they DON’T have certain body parts accentuated for the purpose of pleasing the opposite sex.
Also, I’m perfectly aware that there are worse instances of female objectification in the media. It bothers me a lot. But what bothers me in this particular case is that an adventure game is playing the sex card, and since I find adventure games to be very near and dear to me, it angers me when people who make them show the same immaturity as the rest of the mainstream media.
All hypocrisy in my original post, by the way, was intentional and meant to be tongue-in-cheek.
March 1st, 2006 at 11:49 am
But you’re assuming that we made the character like that to “play the sex card”. When I drew that character, I drew her to be attractive to me (this being a personal project and all), not as some sort of “hey if we give our character big breasts, we can get loads of attention etc”. The fact is that if blogs like this didn’t report on it, then it wouldn’t be getting any attention.
So given the logic behind our character, what you are basically saying is “tsk, how immature of you to like big breasts”. Well whoop-dee-doo. I dare say you have tastes which don’t conform to mine, and if you make some art, or a game which involves those tastes then good for you. It’s not for me to tell you what you should or shouldn’t like or question the maturity of those tastes. I don’t particularly like vulgar porn but it’s not for me to judge someone who does.
So by all means, post a blog saying you don’t like our character - you’re entitled not to like it. But don’t accuse us of glorifying the portrayal of women as sex objects when you know absolutely nothing about the rest of the game, or how we handle the interactions between her and the other characters, when all we’ve actually done is drawn a picture of a girl that we like.
Anyway, enough. It’s not really that important. Lets all be friends - we’re really not sexist, perverted weirdos, or anything. Just a couple of guys having fun on a project we’re doing for our own amusement that we hope some people might like.
March 1st, 2006 at 12:32 pm
Just a slightly dumb remark to lighten this up a bit….
THEIR GONNA EXPLODE!!! *Hides behind table*
Anyway. No offence CaptainBlinky, but I personally feel you should just modify the nurse outfit to hide some of the quite frankly grand-canyon-life cleavidge on show here. To at least not make an attempt to please the gamer is not only seemingly bad PR, it’s also a little obnoxious and childish. This is how it seems to us. This is probably not the case at your end.
Post created from the twisted mind of Huw Dawson. Not suitible for under-3’s due to small parts. Contents may vary.
March 1st, 2006 at 12:52 pm
You are absolutely correct; however, the fact that you’ve given me the impression that you’re supporting and promoting the objectification of woman does have a lot to do with the way you and lemmy101 have promoted the game. All I have seen, after all, are screenshots, a very basic plot outline, and hype pertaining to how bouncy the girl’s walking animations are going to be.
Yes, I have no idea what her personality is like, or how she interacts with the other characters. However, that’s because you haven’t shown me, and all I have to rely on are first impressions. And those first impressions are enough to bother me at this point. (I’m not demanding that you reveal the whole game or anything to me; I’m just trying to illustrate that what you advertise about a game affects what people believe the whole game is about.)
I know I’m not going to change your mind, and you probably won’t change mine. You have the right to make a game that you like, but that also means that I have the right to complain about what I don’t like about it.
March 2nd, 2006 at 3:32 am
“hype pertaining to how bouncy the girl’s walking animations are going to be”
I think it’s a bit much to call a couple of posts in an AGS forum in direct response to someone’s question which were very much tongue-in-cheek “hype”. Perhaps if we hadn’t posted anything about the story and just posted the screens with “COMING SOON - Large breasted bouncy breasted nurse character in adventure game” then you’d have a point.
March 4th, 2006 at 1:21 am
I’m not going to say much more here… but isn’t “I honestly thought we were at least somewhat more mature than the mainstream pubescent male hardcore gamer crowd.” a little bit mean, like saying “We’re better because were adventure gamers”?
That was the only part that really I couldn’t understand why you would say something like that… being a pubescant male gamer and all…
March 4th, 2006 at 5:07 am
“Men like looking at boobs.”
Not me! Well, that’s an exaggeration. Good looking people are pleasant to look at. And there’s aesthetic beauty in almost every human being, male or female, nude or clothed, and I can appreciate that. But sexually, I prefer the male figure and looks. And yes, there are male computer game characters I find sexy (no, not Guybrush Threepwood or Hoagie). I also wish that characters in amateur adventure games would sometimes be something else than geeky adolescent boys and girls. Then again, making a game with such characters might prove to be difficult for most of us.
Anyway. I was going to say something about the objectification of women and men, but forgot what I was supposed to say…
March 4th, 2006 at 8:56 am
Wormsie: Hey! I find Guybrush Threepwood attractive!
KingNipper: Yes, I am being mean. Part of it has to do with my prejudice against pubescent males (it’s not that I hate them, it’s that I don’t understand them, and never did even when I was a pubescent female), and part of it is just me trying subtlely to be funny by making sweeping generalizations.
March 5th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
“The Forgotten Element: Boobs”
March 5th, 2006 at 3:51 pm
Hardly…
March 10th, 2006 at 9:15 pm
Actually, I found Guybrush attractive too, heh.
Well, on one hand, I resent the fact that people on AGS want people to make games exactly the way they want them to, and if they don’t, they complain and whine until they do (or somebody locks the thread). Like when people said I HAD to fix the perspective in a room I wanted to leave as a sort of joke.
But on the other hand, I resent the character being drawn like that, it’s just stands out way too much! How do you expect the male audience to concentrate on the game with a main character like that? xD
I guess everybody has a right to their own opinions. But people also have a right to make a game the way they want.
March 21st, 2006 at 4:02 pm
“normal” person: “why is your face so close to the monitor?”
drooling depraved dude (ddd): “looking at this”
“normal” person: “porn?”
ddd: “nah, screen shot of this boobieful woman”
“normal” person: “did you just say ‘boobieful’?”
ddd: “no, beautiful” -shifty eyes-
“normal” person: “let me see!” sees “you male chauvanistic pig! They’re just
numbers, you know.”
ddd: “yeah, but what numbers!”
“normal” person: “you should be ashamed of yourself. Besides, numbers aren’t
sexy.”
ddd: “uh-huh” short pause “sixty-nine”
“normal” person: -giggle-
ddd: “ah-HA! see?”
np: “what?”
ddd: “you giggled when I said 69!”
np: “did not”
ddd: “and you just BLUSHED when I said it again!”
np: -glares at ddd- “I hate you.”
:^(d) (pitiful made-up smilie meant to show tongue in cheek)